Curse

Bobby2 · Jun 22, 2010, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mia Clemons

Plus, i have yet to see a spear i actually like. Voltaic Spear is overrated.

QFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

damage dealing: good single target damage, no AoE damage. outclassed by all other damage dealing professions in PvE. you can do good damage in PvE but not with a spear... I would suggest P/W with Hundred Blades, P/D with Aura of Holy Might, etc. Both of those can be buffed with Strength of Honor

QFTv2.0

Though, Warriors and Sins do scythes better, not in the least by having quality melee attack skills in their primary attribute line, something which the Gon sadly lacks.

A 100B Gon compares to its Warrior counterpart by having lower armor (not very important), better energy management through GftE! (which can make a big difference depending on build) and slightly lower damage due to a lack of weapon mastery runes. This option seems to be most worthwhile to me.

To top it off Gons actually look pretty cool with swords.

Also, try this on for size...

Khomet Si Netjer · Jun 22, 2010, 07:32 PM // 19:32

yeah, dagger spam is okay but imo hundred blades is better, it gives constant AoE damage with hundred blades, multiple attacks with whirlwind attack and S&M slash, and both of those help to build adrenaline fast for more attacks or more SY spam (or both). hundred blades is not affected that much by blocking but blocking kills the damage and energy management of the P/A. The P/W is naturally easier on energy because the attack skills are adrenaline based.
also the P/W has an additional +16 to +26 armor because of his shield.

the big tragedy here is that the paragon must use some other profession's weapon to do decent damage. :-\ surely that was not part of the original design goals?

Nubarus · Jun 22, 2010, 11:15 PM // 23:15

I still cannot believe so many ppl moan about not dealing enough dmg with the spear................

This is the biggest load of crap I read on these forums so far.

It seems everybody here is focussed only on massive AoE dmg or else the class is labled "crap" and "useless" wich is a shame really.

Talk like this is the main reason I don't play with random peeps anymore, unless they ask for help, those players still appreciate a helping hand without bitching about not using a PvX certified build.

Otherwise I only play with Guild and Alliance members or if none are around at the time Heroes and Hench.

Khomet Si Netjer · Jun 24, 2010, 12:05 AM // 00:05

@Nubarus:

Paragons obviously lose to other professions in terms of AoE damage, since they have none, and lack of multi-attack or multi-hit skills means that they cannot benefit from buff skills as much as other physical damage dealers.

They also lose to other professions in single-target damage.

Warrior beats them with better skills, faster attack speed, strength and knockdowns;

Dervish beats them with better attack skills, higher damage from scythe, and huge damage buffs from Aura of Holy Might, Vow of Strength, etc.

Assassin beats them with better attack skills, faster attack speed, critical hits and dual strikes;

Ranger beats them with multi-attack skills (dual shot and similar) as well as damage buffs such as Glass Arrows, Read The Wind, Expert Focus, Favorable Winds, etc.

so... while paragon can deal adequate damage to single targets, they lose to any other profession no matter which aspect of damage dealing you look at.
This should be a topic of discussion for the paragon updates that the dev team is working on.

Quail Stomp · Jun 24, 2010, 03:59 AM // 03:59

I think i would rather have paragons focus more on party support than dmg. A dmg buff wouldnt hurt but i want to see motivation buffs first.

Nubarus · Jun 24, 2010, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

@Nubarus:

Paragons obviously lose to other professions in terms of AoE damage, since they have none, and lack of multi-attack or multi-hit skills means that they cannot benefit from buff skills as much as other physical damage dealers.

They also lose to other professions in single-target damage.

Warrior beats them with better skills, faster attack speed, strength and knockdowns;

Dervish beats them with better attack skills, higher damage from scythe, and huge damage buffs from Aura of Holy Might, Vow of Strength, etc.

Assassin beats them with better attack skills, faster attack speed, critical hits and dual strikes;

Ranger beats them with multi-attack skills (dual shot and similar) as well as damage buffs such as Glass Arrows, Read The Wind, Expert Focus, Favorable Winds, etc.

so... while paragon can deal adequate damage to single targets, they lose to any other profession no matter which aspect of damage dealing you look at.
This should be a topic of discussion for the paragon updates that the dev team is working on.

Apparently you didn't read everything I wrote before.

If you only use the spear builds from pvx you are indeed very limited with the use of the Paragon, hence the reason I don't use em. (All 4 builds, that's pretty sad actually lol)
Besides the fact it's way more fun to tinker with builds and create a build with trail and error, it is also more useful since a build is growing and you grow with it, by the time the build is finished you already master it.

And some other thing, it's not always about the big dmg you deal compared to other classes that are made for big dmg, the Paragon was added mainly as a command class, not a front line melee fighter or backline area bomber.

I really realllllly hope Anet won't listen to most of the whining and dumb out the Paragon like they did with the Rit, after that crap arse skill buff it was like the invasion of the Rit's. I hate to see 5-10 Paragons in every town bitching who can use the "cool new build" like the Rit's do now with SoS..........

fotovince · Jun 24, 2010, 08:17 PM // 20:17

I think paragons are great, I've played everything. Paragon is just another style. Btw your team will never be so good protected as with a paragon with a good build. I would say make a paragon and play with it for a while, you get the feeling then.

Cuilan · Jun 24, 2010, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

Paragons obviously lose to other professions in terms of AoE damage, since they have none, and lack of multi-attack or multi-hit skills means that they cannot benefit from buff skills as much as other physical damage dealers.

Paragons won't need AoE if they're adjusted to do damage though other players of the team. It's not technically AoE, but you'll be doing damage to multiple foes without all the yellow numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nubarus

If you only use the spear builds from pvx you are indeed very limited with the use of the Paragon, hence the reason I don't use em. (All 4 builds, that's pretty sad actually lol)

I really realllllly hope Anet won't listen to most of the whining and dumb out the Paragon like they did with the Rit, after that crap arse skill buff it was like the invasion of the Rit's. I hate to see 5-10 Paragons in every town bitching who can use the "cool new build" like the Rit's do now with SoS..........

I know wiki type sites aren't user friendly, but PvX is a user generated site. If you know how to fix them or have better builds, you always had the ability to add them.

What did they do to the ritualist? They gave them a lot of builds in addition to SoS. Why would 5-10 ritualists be standing there wanting the same build?

Nubarus · Jun 25, 2010, 07:05 PM // 19:05

I don't need to fix their builds since they are pretty much rubbish if you ask me.
I have a lot of experience playing a Paragon as a command backup, a shout healer and damage dealer, personally I find the Paragon one of the most effective classes for Hard Mode play, no matter what role you choose.

And I have seen Rits bitch at each other in towns about who get's to use the SoS spammer build on several occasions if they end up in the same party.
Before that rediculous skill buff I was playing a spirit spammer and got moaned at for not being a resto rit since "spirits suck" according to most players back then............ever since the invasion of the Rit's I rarely play mine anymore, first of all there are too many of em humping around now and second, it lost it's cool "slow" spirit casting. It used to look like a summoning, now it looks more like someone getting a hernia spasm.

The Riven · Jun 25, 2010, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nubarus

personally I find the Paragon one of the most effective classes for Hard Mode play, no matter what role you choose.

This is surprisingly true. Yes some skills are far to conditional for "balanced" teams, but as a team, the devs need to be very careful with any buffs.
Unconditional buffs and heals? You wouldn't need to be anything other than a Gon.

Cuilan · Jun 25, 2010, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nubarus

I don't need to fix their builds since they are pretty much rubbish if you ask me.
I have a lot of experience playing a Paragon as a command backup, a shout healer and damage dealer, personally I find the Paragon one of the most effective classes for Hard Mode play, no matter what role you choose.

That's why you fix them or add your own. That was kinda the point. You don't need to, but you claim to know better.

How about posting some detailed and descriptive guides here along with builds to go with? You don't know so much and don't have any such great builds I'm sure, but you can prove it.

Nubarus · Jun 25, 2010, 07:57 PM // 19:57

I have no interest in adding anything to PvX builds section.

I share my builds with guildies and friends, and occasionally with people I run into that welcome a helping hand and are not total jerks.

Like yesterday, someone send me a pm after reading this forum thread and I shared my builds and we did some HM stuff together, ppl like that I appeciate and I am happy to share anything with.

Them lot that hang around at PvX and those who run it can grow a hairy wart on their collective asses that is the size of a small planet for all I care.

Cuilan · Jun 25, 2010, 08:04 PM // 20:04

People who hang out on PvX are looking to help people, share things openly, and to become better players. That's clearly not your goal. The site has it's idiots, but those are everywhere.

You talk big, but you have nothing to show.

Nubarus · Jun 25, 2010, 08:34 PM // 20:34

It's a shame that these idiots are the ones who run the site and their possie.

If that wasn't the case things would have most likely been different.

The Riven · Jun 25, 2010, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

People who hang out on PvX are looking to help people, share things openly, and to become better players. That's clearly not your goal. The site has it's idiots, but those are everywhere.

You talk big, but you have nothing to show.

This is clearly false.

PvX builds have constantly been discredited and often post negative reviews on builds that later become the "meta".

Do you honestly think that people who work hard on knowing the actual physics of the game then post said builds on PvX without intensive guild/friends testing?

Cuilan · Jun 25, 2010, 08:41 PM // 20:41

PvX is a user generated site. That means if you know better you could have said something.

Physway wasn't shunned because it was bad.

Nubarus · Jun 25, 2010, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

PvX is a user generated site. That means if you know better you could have said something.

Not with the way ppl "communicate" there. I play games for fun and the way things go on PvX is not my idea of fun.

I had a guildy who was told that he deserves to be killed because he didn't use discordway heroes, he was 12 years old and stopped playing the game.
Stuff like that tends to make me say, no thx to bs sites like that.

Bobby2 · Jun 25, 2010, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Too bad that a thread that was supposed to be informative about the Paragon's qualities has turned into a QQfest about some butthurt guy who was vomited out by the PvX community.

Nubarus · Jun 25, 2010, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Too bad that a thread that was supposed to be informative about the Paragon's qualities has turned into a QQfest about some butthurt guy who was vomited out by the PvX community.

I never had any personal experiences with the PvX community, but thx for making it clear to me why that was a wise choice since it's pretty obvious by the way you communicate you are part of it.............

And not much information was provided other then "only imba is useful" and "go play something else because paragon sucks".

Those that said anything positive about anything other then imba where either ignored or misunderstood. (unless you bring up dagger spammer or hundred blades that is)

Khomet Si Netjer · Jun 28, 2010, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nubarus

Apparently you didn't read everything I wrote before.

If you only use the spear builds from pvx you are indeed very limited with the use of the Paragon, hence the reason I don't use em. (All 4 builds, that's pretty sad actually lol)
Besides the fact it's way more fun to tinker with builds and create a build with trail and error, it is also more useful since a build is growing and you grow with it, by the time the build is finished you already master it.

I read everything you wrote before, it's just wrong. When I compared Paragon to the other professions I was not comparing any particular builds, I was comparing the professions and their skills. Paragon is lacking in single target damage and area effect damage. No super secret leet build is going to make up for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nubarus

And some other thing, it's not always about the big dmg you deal compared to other classes that are made for big dmg, the Paragon was added mainly as a command class, not a front line melee fighter or backline area bomber.

Part of the paragon's role is party support, both offensive and defensive. Unfortunately their offensive support is outclassed by the ritualist (splinter weapon), the necromancer (orders, barbs, mark of pain), and the monk (strength of honor, judge's insight). If paragons are supposed to deal damage through others, where is the damage?